Ask The Expert “double bill”: John Baguley and Nick Brice - Shaw Australia

Tony Cassar: Hi Nick and John, welcome and thank you for being part of the WFA  Ask the Expert series, or should I say Ask the Experts series? This is the first time in over 30 editions of our Ask the Expert series that we’ve interviewed two people simultaneously, so thank you for doing that, fellas.

Nick Brice: It’s an absolute pleasure, particularly for this for anniversary issue. As it’s the 100th edition, we thought it would be a good idea for both of us to celebrate because we also both celebrated significant milestones with Shaw in 2024. John celebrated 20 years and I celebrated 10 years.

Tony Cassar:  Wonderful! So, Nick and John, let’s start at the beginning. What were you both doing prior to entering the window covering industry?

Nick Brice:  I have worked in window coverings for my entire working life. I was brought into the industry by my father, who had a window covering business in Scotland.

During the 70’s my uncles who were builders, had previously emigrated to Australia and came back to visit the family in Scotland.  My father had a small business called Cresta Blinds, with a C, he was manufacturing vertical blinds. 

The brothers hadn’t seen this concept in Australia, so they took the idea back to Australia and registered Kresta with a K. They started Kresta in Australia and about 10 years later, our family in Australia moved heaven and earth to get us to migrate over from the UK. That’s how I got into the industry.

 Tony Cassar: Wow, what a wonderful story! I didn’t realise that Cresta started with a C all the way over there.

 Nick Brice: It’s a little known story, but I’m pretty proud of it because my father was instrumental in bringing vertical blinds to Australia. All the success that Kresta achieved was due to the business acumen of my uncles. They’re incredibly astute business people. 

John Baguley: I used to work as a social worker with young adults with learning disabilities as they transitioned from living with their parents or in a care facility to independent living within the community. This was back in the UK and was my job for around 12 years. 

Tony Cassar: How did you enter the window covering industry?

John Baguley: I was born in Australia but grew up in the UK. I travelled here in 1999 when I met Nick. I then moved back to the UK for a brief period and then moved permanently back to Australia in 2001. We both played for the same football team, Balmain Wanderers, and I was a player coach. 

I think getting into the window coverings industry came about over a few beers. Nick asked me what I was doing, and I said, “Look, I’m a social worker. I’ve got a few interviews lined up.” He then interjected, “You know, for me, you’re a born salesperson and you should be getting into this blind industry.” Initially, I had no idea, but Nick set me up working for Kresta as a commission sales rep.

Tony Cassar:  How long did you stay with Kresta?

John Baguley: I worked as a commission sales rep for six months, before transitioning to state sales manager for six months. From there, I became state manager for another two years before Shaw approached me. 

It’s a sliding doors moment because Shaw came knocking for Nick in 2004. Nick was offered the opportunity to become the sales manager for Shaw but couldn’t take it due to his father’s illness. He recommended me, and so Ross came calling, changing my life from that point.

Tony Cassar: You’ve been together ever since?

Nick Brice: We were actually working in competition with each other for some time. I worked for TWC/Texstyle for 14 years. There was a period of time when we were friendly adversaries, but adversaries, nonetheless. We managed to navigate that, and John was able to offer me an opportunity with Shaw that I couldn’t refuse. The rest is history.

Tony Cassar:  Do you still play football together?

 Nick Brice:  I’m a little bit old for that now, but we managed to play well into our 40s.  Unfortunately, time has caught up with us!

 Tony Cassar: John, can you tell us about the history of Shaw, please?

John Baguley: Shaw was established in 1948 by three brothers – Jeff, Bob, and Harry Shaw. The company was set up after the war because no blind fabric was made in Australia at that time. Everything came from the UK. To our understanding, Shaw is the first Australian manufacturer of blind fabrics.

As well as manufacturing fabrics, they became known for making shower curtains, household plastics, and things such as hospital sheeting and bookbinding paper. David Shaw took over the business from his father and his father’s two brothers and ran it until the Bart family took over in 1996.

Tony Cassar: What do you think you would have been doing if you didn’t end the window covering industry?

John Baguley: I realised that I was never good enough to be a footballer. So, for me, I have a passion for hospitality. I could see myself working in the food and beverage or travel industry.

Nick Brice: I think it was always written in the stars that I would end up in the window coverings industry. John suggested that if I wasn’t in this industry, I might have made a good doorman at an exclusive nightclub!

Tony Cassar: That’s wonderful. I won’t ask why. John, you mentioned that the Bart group took ownership in 1996. What do you think have been the most pivotal moments during this time?

John Baguley: Since taking ownership, Shaw has become a globally respected brand within the industry. The challenges we faced included transitioning manufacturing from Australia to China about 15 years ago. We were unsure of how the market would react, but today, the response has been overwhelmingly positive.

I think that’s because we consistently led the way in innovation and quality. We were one of the first manufacturers to produce wide width roller fabric. We pioneered moving from 1.8 to 2.4 and then subsequently to 3m.

We now have warehouses in every state, and New Zealand and have become a trusted one-stop supplier in the industry.

Tony Cassar: Shaw recently went into the external hardware market. Can you tell me a bit about how that has gone?

Nick Brice: Initially, the circumstances were challenging.  We bought a business called BTI in November 2018, just before Covid. Our plan was to take advantage of new supply chains in Asia and Europe, but to due to international travel restrictions, we were unable to do so. We quickly had to pivot, and Ben Hayek who, joined us from BTI, and was previously the owner, was forced to design our outdoor systems from scratch remotely in Queensland. He did an incredible job.

So, we have been a little slower to market with our key products than was originally intended. However, we’ve used the same model with our fabrics and worked closely with our trusted partners. We’ve developed systems to suit the Australian and New Zealand market, and we now have significant support from trusted partners in each state.  

 We’re expanding those ranges over the next six months, moving into motorisation and further developing an internal roller system.

 John Baguley: I would like to add that Shaw New Zealand still manufactures fabric today. We have been the largest exporter of window coverings fabric out of New Zealand for over 25 years now 

Nick Brice: We keep our trusted partners involved in the product development journey in each state, and it has paid dividends for us. One of the other aspects of the business is that we now have the James Lane furniture business as part of our group. John plays a crucial role within our group of businesses, while I work solely for Shaw.

 Nick Brice: And because of our relationship with them, we are now even closer to internal fashion trends. This has given us a real edge.

John Baguley: Nick alluded to the Bart Group, which employs about 1200 people across various industries, including well-known retail brands such as James Lane, Sleeping Giant, and Bed Bath and Beyond. We also have a new wholesaler, Elme Living, specialising in artificial flowers, plants, trees and homewares.

Being in the interiors business helps us stay on top of trends in the home. We not only focus on window coverings, but also interior fashion and trends. We collaborate closely and share learnings to develop colours, products and fabrics.

Tony Cassar: Nick and John, what are your greatest challenges within the business now?

John Baguley: I think our biggest challenge is finding the right balance between affordability and quality when it comes to consumer price expectations. 

Tony Cassar: How do you gauge the success of advertising in Window Furnishings Australia magazine?

John Baguley: We believe that it’s a focused, credible, and effective way to connect with our target audience. We don’t monitor lead generation or anything like that, but we’re happy and confident that it increases our brand and product recognition.

Nick Brice: It’s really important for us to maintain a presence in the magazine. It’s an outstanding publication, and I believe it’s the best of its kind in the world. It’s important that we support the local industry by supporting the magazine and staying front of mind for our customers, especially now in relation to new product releases.

Tony Cassar: Very good. How many employees does Shaw have at the moment?

John Baguley: Shaw currently employs 94 staff and within that, we’re proud to foster a positive workplace culture. We also have a very strong employee retention rate.

Tony Cassar: What challenges do you believe the window covering industry is currently facing and will face in the future?

Nick Brice: We have done a lot of traveling lately to factories outside of our general supplier base. Both John and I believe that the biggest challenge to manufacturing in Australia, is direct-to-consumer supply from overseas.

 Nick Brice: Some of the factories we toured in Asia supply goods to the United States through platforms such as Amazon. I believe our retailers and manufacturing wholesalers can benefit from being aware of this. We need to stay relevant and competitive within Australia. We need to make sure that they don’t get a strong foothold.

John Baguley: I think sustainability demands are quite high at the moment, which is positive. In markets like the US, there is a growing demand for eco-friendly products. Consumers and regulators are pushing companies such as ours to adopt greener materials in our fabrics. This is what we are working hard to do. 

Sustainability is actually one of the areas in which we’re investing heavily in R&D, particularly in a greener version of fire retardant.

Tony Cassar: And what does the medium to long term future look like for both of you?

Nick Brice: For the next six months, it’s going to be extremely busy for me. We have a lot of projects going on. Our product release calendar is jam-packed for the next six months. We’ll be launching a brand new version of hardware for our internal roller blinds, as well as a motorisation program. We also have three or four new fabric releases coming out sporadically throughout the year. It’s going to be a busy year for us, but we’re excited about the opportunities it will bring. 

Tony Cassar: You are a member of the Window Shading Association of Australia.

For those who may be reading this article and are not members of the WSAA, can you explain the benefits of being a member?

John Baguley: We’re a specialised industry, so being part of it is a sign that you’re investing in your business’s growth, credibility, and long-term success. Membership signals professionalism and a commitment to quality and standards.

There are many networking opportunities at industry meetings and functions that can benefit your business. We need to increase our membership.

Nick Brice: I couldn’t agree more with what John said. I think the recent changes within the organisation are fantastic. I am incredibly grateful to those who have served the industry on the board of directors.  

 These people who have served on a volunteer basis are incredible servants to our industry. However, I would love to see more retail members involved in the WSAA. 

Tony Cassar: What have been your greatest achievements throughout your careers?

John Baguley: One of my greatest achievements is helping to grow Shaw into a world recognised and trusted leader on the global market. I’m proud to say it’s a business that genuinely cares for its people. We recognise our team as our greatest asset and I’m also proud of the role I’ve played in helping everyone reach their full potential. The product that I’m most proud of developing is Vibe. It was the first direct coated wide width fabric to have a matte finish. Even though it was many years ago, I still think it’s one of Australia’s if not the world’s best sellers.

Nick Brice: I think that’s an incredible legacy for John. Vibe is a tremendously important product in Australia, New Zealand, and overseas. John worked incredibly hard in the early stages to get this product to market. Developing a product of this nature with a matte finish is not easy. I believe the team we have assembled at Shaw are an incredible group of individuals. My main focus in the business is ensuring the best possible customer experience. I have the support of a great customer service manager, Anna Alatzas, as well as a number of other talented individuals.

The team we’ve put together consists of professionals with an incredible amount of experience, including a number with over 20 years of experience such as Charles Spiteri who is a legend in the Victorian shading solutions market.

Tony Cassar: Who has been the greatest influence in your business life?

John Baguley: It’s a difficult question to answer because I’ve been fortunate to meet so many influential people throughout my career. A day doesn’t go by without getting a new insight or perspective from a team member, customer, or supplier.

Charles Spiteri was a huge influence on my knowledge growth in the early years. He was probably the best account manager I’ve ever worked with, we spent a long time together, although he used to tell everyone we had a love-hate relationship ‘he hated it when I landed and loved it when I left’ 

If you’re pushing me for the greatest influencers in my career, Mark Edwards and Paula Deason from Phifer Inc. have been mentors to me from the start. They taught me that the foundation for any successful business lies in strong relationships and meaningful partnerships. They have shown me the importance of trust, collaboration, and mutual respect in building long-term success.

Nick Brice: For me, there are a number of people who I have been incredibly lucky to work in various organisations during periods of immense success. First and foremost, it would be my dad. He taught me that, at the end of the day, it’s important to stay humble and grateful for opportunities.

The most important thing is hard work. My dad wasn’t always successful in his career in window coverings, but I learned from both his successes and failures. When I reflect on the businesses I’ve worked for, hard work is always the key factor.

Kresta provided many learning experiences, initially with Ernie Brice, my 98-year-old uncle who still goes into work a few days a week, and also Tas Zorbas. I also had the opportunity to work with Greg Campbell at TWC, an incredibly charismatic man from whom I learned so much. And of course John Bagley as well. But I must make special mention of James Bart and the Bart family. They have been incredibly kind to me. All in all, I’ve been extremely lucky to work with dynamic people; it has been an amazing experience.

Tony Cassar: And in your personal lives, who are the greatest influences? 

John Baguley: There are so many, but I want to single out James Bart, the owner of Shaw. His support, trust and guidance has been pivotal for me personally in shaping my personal and professional journey. He continues to inspire me to strive to be the best version of myself. He navigates challenges with resilience and always maintains a positive outlook. A good listener, he is always open to hearing a different perspective. He constantly pushes and challenges both me and Nick to think outside the box.

Nick Brice: Personally, for me, the people that I admire the most include firstly my father, who has since passed away, and secondly, my brother.  He is an incredibly hardworking person, and I have taken inspiration from him. 

Tony Cassar: Could you tell us a little bit about your family interests and your interests outside of work?

John Baguley: After seven years with my partner Nicky, I proposed last year. We blended our families in our new home, each of us having three children, so we are genuinely the real-life Brady Bunch. Outside of that, Aston Villa is my second passion, along with travelling and cooking. And with that comes, obviously, eating.

Nick Brice: I travel a lot, so I am away from home a lot during the working week, about 70% of the year. I have been with my wife Michelle for 30 years. We have two boys, Alistair who is 26 and works in the IT industry, and Alex who is 17 and entering his last year of school. My wife has held our family together while I pursued my career, for which I am incredibly grateful.

When I’m not working, I just love being at home with my family, and like John, I support a great football team in Wolverhampton Wanderers. 

Tony Cassar: Well it has been great catching up with both of you. Thank you for your time as this edition’s Ask The Expert. 

John Baguley: It’s a pleasure Tony.

Nick Brice: Likewise Tony – it was a lot of fun.